Fatherville Interview with Jeremy G. Schneider, MFT – December 2006

Fatherville: You've written about how some dads don't feel an immediate connection with their children. Do you remember feeling a connection to your children when they were born?

JGS: I was pretty overwhelmed once my children were born. We were completely caught off–guard with them being born almost 2.5 months early. We were worried about their health and consumed by visiting the hospital every day. We couldn't even bring our children home until they were four weeks old.

I can remember, even when they were in the hospital, not having any idea how to be with them. My wife would hold each of them and talk to them and I had no idea how she did it. She seemed to feel so close to them and I remember feeling very little – except uncomfortable. I knew I loved my children, but the emotion was not strong enough inside me to even be felt yet. I knew they needed to hear my voice so I bought a Winnie–the–Pooh book so I could read to each of them since I could rarely come up with things to talk about.

Fatherville: Did that lack of connection continue even after you brought them home?

JGS: When we finally were able to bring them home, the lack of feeling, the lack of intensity of my feelings toward my children really began to scare me. I immediately thought there must be something wrong with me. Why didn't I feel a strong connection with my kids? What kind of father am I? From there it was easy to see how maybe I should work longer since I wasn't bringing any real value as a parent and my wife (and her mother and sister and my step–mother) were doing such a good job. The only reason I didn't was because with two babies my wife really needed the break when I got home. If I couldn't connect with them myself, the least I could do was support my wife.

Fatherville: What did you do? How did you get through it?

JGS: I focused on helping my wife, supporting her as much as possible. When she was breastfeeding, I was holding the other one, trying to keep them calm and quiet so as not to distract the one who was breastfeeding. We were living in a one–bedroom apartment and just didn't have a lot of room as you can imagine.

By supporting her I felt a little bit useful, felt like I was a little necessary and that made me feel a bit better. When they started sitting up and crawling around, everything began to change for me. I found it easier to interact with them and, frankly, I had been watching my wife for several months and was learning from her how she played with them. I started trying to step outside of myself and to be fun, to be playful. When they laughed, well, that was the best positive reinforcement in the entire world. So I did it more, tried more things and before I knew it, I found myself feeling a strong connection with them. A connection, by the way, that pales with what I would even feel six months later – let alone what I feel now.

At the time, it felt like forever that I didn't feel a strong connection to my children, but looking back it was only a few months. It's even hard to believe I felt that way.

Fatherville: What are some of the unique challenges in being a father of twins?

JGS: Well, one of the funnier things is I often forget most people get their children one at a time – instead of by two like we did.

The hardest part – especially in the beginning – was the fact that we didn't have any extra hands. For instance, the first time I really became aware of it, we were in the hospital and my wife was feeding Jordyn and I was feeding Elijah and we needed a cloth that was on the chair in the middle of the room – but both of us had our hands full and couldn't move. I honestly don't know how parents with triplets or even more do it. Twins are pretty hard.

Fatherville: Any other situations that were challenging?

JGS: Yeah. All of the major developmental steps, like getting them to sleep through the night, teaching them to use the toilet and potty and things like that became more complicated with two at a time.

Fatherville: Why?

JGS: Well, because with one child, both parents can focus on that one child, but with two not only is it harder to focus on only one, but if one gets upset it is more likely the other one will get upset, so it is much more of a balancing act.

Fatherville: How did you start writing about fatherhood?

JGS: I was pretty out of it for the first year of their life. It felt like they barely slept, so neither did we. I couldn't exercise or anything else beyond wake up, go to work, try to stay awake, go back home and spend time with our babies. It felt like we didn't sleep for more than 3–4 hours in a row for almost 12 months.

Then one day it all seemed to change. I started getting more sleep and feeling better during the day. I was able to start exercising and before I knew it I was sitting on the train (I commute about 40 minutes by train before I get to the subway) with my Palm Pilot scribbling. It started with Big Brown Eyes Looking Up At Me and Making My Time Away A Little Easier…For All of Us. The first was about my little boy following me around while I was scrambling to get ready in the morning. At first it bothered me, but then I realized he was just trying to be with me, to learn how to be me. Then he started getting upset when I left and I wrote about how we tried to help him not get so upset. Then every time I had a problem to work through I started writing about it.

Basically, I just kept believing that if I experienced this challenge, other dads probably had a similar experience as well. Maybe what I did could be of some help to them. Hopefully, it has.

Fatherville: How many articles do you think you've written on the train?

JGS: Oh, somewhere around 75 – not including my 350 or so posts on Two Okapis.

Fatherville: You have a monthly column called A Father's Voice. How did that come about?

JGS: Actually, after I had written a couple of dozen articles, I realized that I wasn't doing anything with them, that they were just sitting in my laptop. Many of my friends and family wanted to read my pieces and it occurred to me I could send out one article every month and it grew from there.

Fatherville: You've also turned A Father's Voice into a Podcast. Was that difficult?

JGS: Fortunately, I've always been pretty good with technology. Honestly, I Googled how to create a Podcast and just tried to teach myself. I started Podcasting in March 2006 and I just haven't had the time to go back and Podcast the earlier columns. My first one was not very good, but I'm getting better at it. This last one from December, was the most fun to do so far.

Fatherville: You're also writing a series of articles on fatherhood research, right?

JGS: Yes. It is called Hey Dads…You Matter! and they are short pieces examining specific findings from parenting studies – especially fatherhood – to help parents understand the importance of fathers and to show how they can apply the lessons from these findings in their daily lives.

Fatherville: You've also started getting some of your work published in parenting magazines?

JGS: I've had three articles published with two more scheduled for the Spring and Summer of 2007.

Fatherville: Where have you gotten them published? Near where you live or around the country?

JGS: I had one published in Kids Pages from Colorado, Kindred (formerly ByronChild) in Australia, and Dallas Child of well,…Dallas. Littlies, a New Zealand parenting magazine, is going to publish two more pieces in the first half of next year. Of course, Fatherville has been kind enough to publish several of my pieces and A Father's Voice.

Fatherville: Earlier you mentioned Two Okapis, your blog. When did you start it?

JGS: I started Two Okapis in January of 2006. At first, I was only writing a few times a week, but very soon I started writing every day during the week (I almost never write on the weekends).

Fatherville: What is your purpose for Two Okapis?

JGS: In the beginning, I thought of Two Okapis as a way to show what happens between my A Father's Voice columns, but it also turned out to be a great place to work through the daily challenges of being a father to twins. Blogging can be incredibly therapeutic. I know you have one yourself and there is just something about writing your thoughts with the possibility of others reading them – even though you don't know who they are. Then I started realizing how much my childhood was affecting the way I was parenting and I started working through some of my childhood experiences as well. The entire experience was incredibly powerful and empowering for me. There is something quite incredible about being able to reexperience your past through writing about it – a sense that you have a level of control you never had as a child. It was powerfully impacting for me and just another reason why I like writing every day.

Fatherville: Now, you are not only a father of twins, but you are a marriage and family therapist as well, right?

JGS: Yes. I got my Master's degree in Marriage and Family Therapy.

Fatherville: Were you always interested in being a therapist?

JGS: Actually, I had wanted to be a therapist since I was nine years old. I always knew I wanted to help people.

Fatherville: I think I read somewhere you started your own non–profit organization. How did that come about?

JGS: Impatience [laughter]. I had had the idea to start a non–profit in college and during my grad program I apparently just couldn't wait any longer.

Fatherville: What was it called?

JGS: Empowering Children and Families, Inc. Our mission was to foster the confidence in individuals to create stronger families through interactive education. We published a newsletter, sponsored programs and developed information for people considering seeing a therapist.

Fatherville: There have been quite a few articles lately on what some people call, “The Death of Playtime,” the concern that children are overscheduled, too busy going from one activity to another. What do you think of all this?

JGS: I believe this is one of the biggest issues children are forced to deal with. Parents who want the best for their children, who want their children to be exposed and to try and learn as many things as possible, are actually causing their children more harm than good. Yes, it is good to learn and experience many different things. But childhood is a time for playtime, for free time, for just being who they are, not trying to become someone else. Children need down time, they need time to do whatever is they want to do, they need time to use their imagination, they need time to create and control their own world instead of feeling a complete lack of control because they are always moving from one activity to another. Children will spend almost their entire lives experiencing various levels of stress – there's no need for them to start experiencing stress earlier than necessary.

Fatherville: One of the things you write about a lot is the sense of learning a role, becoming the role of daddy. Could you talk a little bit more about that?

JGS: Absolutely! This is one of the things I feel most passionately about. I didn't know how to be a dad when my children were born. I also didn't really have a good role model, either. But from having examined my experiences, I was able to learn what I think I needed from my father and that helped me to think about what my children need from me. I often found myself in situations – especially in the first year or two – where I wasn't comfortable doing something or felt it wouldn't matter. I was able to step back and think about what Elijah and Jordyn needed and tried to do that. I call it New Daddy Math. I may not think I am or what I do is important, but Elijah's and Jordyn's father is very important to them. I am their father and thus, what I do is important – even if I don't feel like it is. I stepped into the role of their father, of what they need their father to be and before long, I became the role. Now it doesn't feel like I am trying to be someone – it feels like I am someone. I am their Daddy and it feels more comfortable than ever. I believe many men struggle with how to be a dad and get too caught up in what they can't or feel uncomfortable doing, instead of focusing on what they can do. This process helps men focus on what they can do and seeing how valuable they are in the reactions from their child.

Fatherville: That's very interesting and a good note to leave people thinking about. Thank you very much Jeremy for talking with us today.

JGS: It was my pleasure!